Kinds of Kindnessarrives on streaming next month, bringing the absurdist black comedy to a much wider audience. Described by director Yorgos Lanthimos as a “triptych fable,” the film tells three short stories, all utilizing the same cast members in different roles. TheKinds of Kindnessensembleincludes Emma Stone, Willem Dafoe, Margaret Qualley, and Mamoudou Athie.
The film’s three sections are entitled “The Death of R.M.F.,” “R.M.F. is Flying,” and “R.M.F. Eats a Sandwich,” all of which tell tales with the themes of control and longing. Mamoudou Athie, known for roles infilms likeJurassic World DominionandUncorked, appears in all three, though his largest role is in the second, in which he plays a man named Neil opposite Jesse Plemons, who plays his best friend and partner in the police force. The movie will be released to home audiences in the second week of October, coming to DVD and Blu-ray on October 8.
Kinds Of Kindness Review: Yorgos Lanthimos’ Bizarre Anthology Drama Challenges Us To Flee Desperation
A culmination of unsettling acts of desperation & a humorous attack on acquiescence, the film boasts an uncomfortable yet entertaining experience.
Screen Rantinterviewed Mamoudou Athie to talk about working with Yorgos Lanthimos, Jesse Plemons, and plans for the future.
Working With Yorgos Lanthimos Helped Athie “Push The Envelope”
The Importance Of Working With Directors Who “Really Risk It”
Screen Rant: I think your body of work is absolutely fantastic, and I also love Yorgos [Lanthimos]. I think he is one of the most exciting filmmakers and unique filmmakers I’ve ever seen. What was your first experience with his projects and what drew you to this project?
Mamoudou Athie: The first one - I saw The Lobster when it came out in theaters with a bunch of classmates and we’re like, “Who made this?” And it was just anything that he did, we would go to the theaters to see - we’re not waiting. We’re going to see it, and we’re going to support it in the theaters, because with singular talents and people that really risk the biscuit - I’m saying a lot of weird phrases today [Laughs] - who really risk it, I feel like you’re duty-bound - especially if you’re part of the business - to support it. Which I haven’t been entirely successful with this year, but I’m going to get back in my game.
A couple months before we started shooting, I got a call from my agent: Yorgos' casting director, Dixie Chassay, wants to the chat with me. It was like 11 o’clock at night. We had a chat; I was like, “This is wild, I’m talking to this casting director about a Yorgos movie out of nowhere.”
Then I spoke with Yorgos. He was lovely, real gentleman, and we just talked about what was interesting to us, and he was like, “Well, if you want to do it, I’d love to do it.” I’m like, “I’m doing the movie, man.” Then he sent me the script, I read the script, and I was scared [Laughs], and did the movie, and it was really fun.
When you first read the script forKinds of Kindness, what were some of your big takeaways from that initial readthrough?
Mamoudou Athie: I was like, “Is this going to be like, okay? Are you going to be okay?” But again, honestly, if I got that script from somebody whose work I hadn’t seen and didn’t admire so much, I’m not sure if I have the guts to do it. But, because it’s Yorgos, and because everything that I’d seen of his was just so - it just sticks with you, and it’s so masterfully done, and so artfully done. you’re able to trust it.
But to be completely candid, I don’t know if I’d have the guts to have taken that risk with any other director outside of somebody who I’d seen push the envelope in the ways that he can, and investigate, and do it successfully, or in a way that’s at least morbidly interesting.
When I first saw this trailer, I didn’t quite know what to expect, and I actually liked that. because I went in kind of blind. I went in just with the trailer and I went in blind, and I loved the three stories that were told, and once I let it marinate a little bit, I felt like the central theme there was all about control. For you, what was the theme that you took out of the script, and then when you saw the film, what was the theme you got out of it?
Mamoudou Athie: That was the first thing that I thought of when I read the script, and honestly, I’ve been thinking about that with all of his movies. That’s a consistent interest of his. I had a teacher that told us a lot of great playwrights are typically obsessed with a particular facet of humanity, and they continually, over the course of their lives, investigate and discuss and talk about it within their place. you may watch the movies and see that there’s an element of an interest in control over another person, and how it exerts itself.
After watching the movie - because I read it, and it’s not like I had anything more outside of like, “Oh, this is some kind of meditation on control and what that is.” After watching, it was a lot about - [Laughs] this is so corny - the “kinds of kindness” phrase really stuck with me, because it wasn’t solely just about control, but what people are willing to give up to feel accepted or loved, or just to have some kind of tenderness. They’ll just do horrific acts to themselves, to other people to get that acceptance, and I thought that was something that didn’t occur to me when I read it, only when I saw it.
I’ve heard that Yorgos famously doesn’t like talking about his scripts, or really dissecting his scripts too much. Was there anything you were able to discuss with him about the script though?
Mamoudou Athie: I was really down for that kind of exercise, I like talking about the script as much as the next person, but I really want to explore that exercise of just doing it. That was really interesting me, and I felt like I trust myself and I trust him, so if I’m doing something that’s wildly out of pocket, we’ll go back there.
There were times where I was like, “Hey, let’s go this way,” and he was like, “Oh, yeah, cool.” There was initially like, “Do I suck in this?” [Laughs] But that’s just the ego talking, getting in the way of the actual thing. That’s what I loved about the movie, it was just about: let’s do this thing, and let’s try to do it as full as you can.
Like I said before, I think Yorgos is such a visionary director. Working with Yorgos, can you talk to me about the collaboration process and what stood out about him that may have been different from other directors you’ve worked with in the past?
Mamoudou Athie: That’s an interesting question. I don’t know if there was anything that was like, “Wow.” All of these directors that I’ve enjoyed working with are so uniquely themselves. I don’t think there’s anything that was unusual about him outside of not really wanting to talk about the script at all, which was - again - interesting and fun for me.
But he’s a gentleman, and made a really fun set where it was just like everybody was hanging out, chilling, no drama, just doing the crazy s*** on screen and then being like, “Anyway!” It was pretty chill. It wasn’t as scary as I had built it up in my head to be, it was just like, we’re hanging out, we’re making a movie. Everybody’s treated well.
Kinds Of Kindness Helped Athie Feel “A Lot Freer As An Actor”
How Kinds of Kindness' Experimental Format Helped The Actor’s Confidence
You share a lot of your scenes with Jesse Plemmons, can you share your favorite memories of working with him on this film?
Mamoudou Athie: Just him as a person. He’s a great guy. He’s the guy that you would hope that he is. He is a consummate, professional, real-deal actor, all about the work of what’s in front of us for the day, very friendly, and affable, and really fun to be around, but no drama, no ego, none of that - just a really great person to work with.
I hope I get to work with him again, because he’s one of those people that I watch in a movie and I’m like, “This guy isn’t interested in showing off. He’s just interested in telling a story” And that was true, and I was happy, because sometimes you find out and you’re like, “Aw, man.” This guy, he’s the real deal. I’m here to tell you: he means it.
You’ve seen Yorgos’Lobsterin theaters, and then you get asked to work on this movie, and then you read the script, you work with them. What did you learn about yourself through this process of making this film?
Mamoudou Athie: I feel like a large part of the reason I wanted to do this movie was to also stretch past my comfort zone, and this movie certainly did that. As a result of having done this movie, I feel a lot freer as an actor. It’s been really great. It’s so cool that you have a goal, and then it happens and you’re like, “Oh, yeah, that had the intended effect,” so I’m really excited.
I’m doing a play right now in New York, and we haven’t started performances yet; hopefully, people respond to it in the way that we hope. But I feel free in a way that feels very, very influenced by the risks taken by doing Kinds of Kindness, because now I’m just like, “Let’s just really go and explore, and let’s really excavate,” and there’s no embarrassment, there’s no anything else. It’s just like, “Let’s do it to the fullest.”
I shot some movies recently, this summer, shot two films, and it just felt different in that I just felt like I just feel more confident, to be honest. I’ve always been a pretty confident actor, but it feels pretty good now.
Now that this is getting released on home entertainment, one thing I love doing in my household is doing these double features. If you had to choose a double feature forKinds of Kindnessthat isn’t one of Yorgos' other movies, what would your double feature consist of?
Mamoudou Athie: I have to think about that, because there’s a whole - do you want to be in that space two times? Do you want something that’s a little bit of a digestif? I wonder if I’d be like, “Oh, let’s put on a Miyazaki movie,” right? You know what? Yeah, let’s go there. I would say right after, watch Porco Rosso [Laughs].
Athie Mamoudou Talks The Future: “I Can Do This Until I’m 80”
The Actor Has Many Creatives He’d Love To Work With - Or Work With Again
Working with Yorgos is definitely one of your bucket list checkoffs, what other directors would you like to collaborate with?
Mamoudou Athie: There’s a ton. I’m a huge fan of David Lowery, I think he’s just one of the best directors alive. Ghost Story, Old Man and the Gun, The Green Knight - speaking of the Green Knight, Dev Patel is the real deal, guys. This guy is for real. I couldn’t be a bigger fan of him.
Barry Jenkins is just one of those people that you want to work with because just captures black people so beautifully and sensitively on screen, and it’s not common, unfortunately. I love his work. There’s also a lot of people I want to work with again, like I lovedworking with Prentice Penny, loved working with Jason Reitman. I loved working with James Ponsoldt. We have plans.
There’s so many people that I feel like I’ve grown up with as an actor as a result of working with them. They’ve given me such confidence. I’d love to continue, do another story, another exploration, because it’s some of the best memories I’ve had in my life making those movies in particular.
What have you got coming up next? I know that you’re doing a stage show in New York. What else have you got going on?
Mamoudou Athie: I just recently wrapped this movie called By Design, directed by Amanda Kramer. How do I explain this plot - I fall in love with a chair possessed by the spirit of Juliette Lewis, so [Laughs] I had to do that.
I’m sold.
Mamoudou Athie: When I tell you I loved making this movie - it was just wonderful. Previous to that, I did a movie called Wardriver with Dane DeHaan, I really liked working with him a lot. And I have a movie that I’m in negotiations with what I’m really excited about that would shoot in November.
You’re a fantastic actor, and I think that you’re so smart with the roles that you choose. What do you look for in roles that you want to accept?
Mamoudou Athie: Well, I did this play in grad school called The Visit, and it changed my life. I just was obsessed with this play. It was about people ,and money, and greed, and it just felt really important. I remember I was leaving the hospital for a checkup, and this lady stops me outside of the hospital and she’s talking to me about the play, and she really wants to talk about it in this way that I was like, “This is exactly what I thought it was.” It is a useful play, it’s not just like grownups playing pretend. There’s something really useful about it, and this is how I can do this until I’m 80.
That’s been my guiding light for projects. Obviously, there’s certain things that you want to do because you’re interested in a director or you think it’d be fun, but typically it’s because of that reasoning. It’s usually not a ton of money, but it’s well worth it for the experience and the growth as an actor and how you feel like it might land on people.
The way people talk to me about Uncorked is so important to me. The way people talk about Oh Jerome, No is really important to me, because I find when I was growing up there was always a tough exterior for the young sensitive black men, or it was a cartoonishly, nerdy kind of guy, and it was like, “No, it’s not fair. It’s not fair, and it’s not the full spectrum of humanity.” So it’s been deeply important for me to play sensitive, or open-hearted, or just without it being a commentary like how dorky I am or how tough and guarded I am. It’s just like, “No, I’m a person who’s open and that exists,” so that’s also a big part of it.
More About Kinds Of Kindness (2024)
An anthological fable of free will, Kinds of Kindness follows three distinct stories each featuring different characters portrayed by the same actors: a man without choice as he attempts to take control of his life; a policeman whose “wife” returns home after being missing-at-sea, but seems to be a completely different person; and a woman whose sights are set on finding someone with a specific special ability, who is destined to become a prodigious spiritual leader.
Check out our otherKinds of Kindnessinterviews here:
Kinds of Kindnessis currently available for purchase on digital platforms and will release on Blu-ray and DVD on October 8.
